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Post by Slithz3rikai on Sept 20, 2003 11:29:48 GMT -5
Wtf? No. If you mix sulfuric acid and sodium chlorate, it'll catch fire.
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Post by DevourThePain on Sept 20, 2003 21:12:05 GMT -5
Well for one, theres a chance that your mix will catch on fire if upi use a chlorate... secdond, you wont end up having a nitrogen in your cellulose, you would instead have a chlorate which wont help you out much (not to mention i highly doubt its possible to have cellulose chlorate) Tis a worthy question though. im sure youve helped more than a couple people with it. I myself once asked myself that until i found out that it was a bad idea. (that was about a year ago)
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aj
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Post by aj on Oct 8, 2003 13:12:16 GMT -5
Gather round children.
H2SO4 + KNO3 ---> K2SO4 + 2HNO3
HNO3 being NITRIC ACID. And that is what nitrates the cellulose.
Now consider this:
H2SO4 + NaClO3 If I know my alphabet right, there aint no nitrogen in there. We're pretty fucked getting HNO3 out of it then.
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Post by Slithz3rikai on Oct 8, 2003 15:46:43 GMT -5
H2SO4 + KNO3 ---> K2SO4 + 2HNO3 It's actually H2SO4 + 2KNO3 --> 2K2SO4 + 2HNO3.
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K9
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Post by K9 on Oct 8, 2003 16:28:15 GMT -5
Um..... that's not balanced Slithz3rikai.
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aj
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Post by aj on Oct 8, 2003 16:47:07 GMT -5
HAHAHAHAHAH! I knew I'd trip one of you clever assed wankers up! It's actually:
H2SO4 + 2KNO3 ---> K2SO4 + 2HNO3
Anyway, my point remains. No nitrogen = no nitration.
I dont know why everyone only seems to use KNO3 in nitrations. NH4NO3 or NaNO3 work perfectly well too. The only thing to consider is that, due to each compound having a different RMM, different amounts of each would need to be added to the acid in order to yeild the same amount if nitrogen.
For our non stochiometric friends out there, this may be of use.
1 mole of NaNO3 = 85g 1 mole of KNO3 = 101g 1 mole of NH4NO3 = 80g
NH4NO3 is the one to use like, since it dissolves into the acid with greater ease than the other two.
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Post by DevourThePain on Oct 8, 2003 22:57:52 GMT -5
From what ive read NaNO3 has better nitrating abilities than KNO3. I usually use Kno3 because i have a large amount of it lying around. Sodium nitrate is cheaper for me personally but i have the potassium nitrate because of the fireworks I produce. Im not too keen on yellow fireworks so i tend to stay away from buying sodium compounds. Ammonium nitrate is harder to obtain here as people ask way too many questions. I do use ammonium nitrate when i make NG though as the acid temp doesnt rise as much when the two are mixed.
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K9
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Post by K9 on Oct 9, 2003 1:11:39 GMT -5
NaNO3 is more soluble and thus better.
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Post by Slithz3rikai on Oct 13, 2003 11:16:29 GMT -5
Finally, an intellegent poster who actually knows HOW these reactions work chemically!
No offense to the other intellegent posters, of course.
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